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« Fascist Alert! | Main | Comments on Postmodernism »

April 04, 2005

Comments

Caligula

Boys, Boys, lighten up! Although Caligula, perhaps influenced by the fumes from Courvoisier and the fact that part of the conversation was in the German language, HAS compared the "PATRIOT" Act to the Enabling Acts after the Reichstag fire, he has to ask:
Where are the snazzy uniforms and zippy marching tunes?
And look at Leni Riefenstahl's incomparable "Triumph des Willens." [Calig's willing to lend his copy.] Compare the orations to those of The Midland Moron--okay, both guys have "Southern Accents," of sorts, but....Well, what did Marx say: "History repeats itself,
first as tragedy and then as farce." Ah, where is Charles A. Lindbergh now that we REALLY need him?

carter

Is the Republican Party truly fascist? Sadly, no. You also seem to have a poor grasp on what fascism really was. You should try watching this brilliant multi-episode television documentary, you might learn something.

Joe S.

I'm with Patrick on 1-3. 4-5, though, is a bit of a stretch. Compared with most other countries, our democratic liberties are still okay, and redemptive violence is pretty low. We're still a rule-of-law country--internally, at least. (Then again, so was apartheid South Africa.)
#1-3 are necessary but not sufficient for fascism, and alone prove little. All conservative movements--even the legitimate ones (e.g., Christian Democracy, the Japanese LDP)--are nationalistic, obsess on decline, and collaborate with economic elites. I am not at all a conservative, but I think they are easy to distinguish from the fascists.
The legitimate conservatives are democratic rule-of-law folk, and don't have much truck with redemptive violence. I'm worried about the Bushies, but they ain't there yet.

Kimmitt

Neiwert over at Orcinus has examined this pretty thoroughly; he came to a similar conclusion. The Republican Party as an institution is merely proto-fascist, but there are elements within it which hold a fascist theory of government.

dneiwert.blogspot.com

garth

don't forget mussolini's definition of fascism, though: a combination of state and corporate power.

in that light i don't see it as anything but fascism.

MacBearTwo

I really have to join the chorus of “you’re stretching on this one”and agree with carter that this attempt at comparison shows a weak grasp on true fascism. I know it is tempting to pick out an Ashcroft or a Gonzalez here and there and shout “Aha!” but its just not in the same league with the previous parade of horribles who carried the mantle of fascism. I’m not even sure it rises to the level of the Nixon Empire, although some may find that debatable.

Joe S. says that he is in general agreement with 1,2 and 3 but even with these I think the comparisons are superficial. What political parties anywhere in the world don’t portray themselves as an oppressed minority? Surely, Democrats are just as guilty as Republicans in this regard. What truly good Democrat and great American in Massachusetts or California hasn’t bemoaned the oppression of the “heartland Christian right”trying to impose its moral superiority on the huddled masses? And although I feel your pain concerning using 9/11 as an excuse to butcher the Geneva Convention, the Bill of Rights and common decency, I’m not sure this is really a Republican calling card. In fact, I’m inclined to think that most of the Bush majority are just as uncomfortable with it as those living on a coast, they just need an alternative. As for (3), well, I don’t see the same collaborators as being the movers and shakers. Business has traditionally voted Republican. This is nothing new. George I advocated that the new country should avoid foreign entanglements. That made him an isolationist but not a fascist. Kyoto and the ICC withdrawals show a marked indifference to diplomacy and rule of law. Historically this has been the province of both political parties. The groups that put Bush over the electoral hurdle were the Christian isolationists and the libertarians, both groups that the Dems could either neutralize or convert with a reasonable candidate. 4 and 5 are really just not worthy.

I’m not defending this administration or arguing that most of your examples aren’t indicative of mean people. Its just not fascism as it was practiced in the 20th century.

glopk

No, don't think it's a stretch. I was born, raised and educated
in Italy, came across the pond back in '98, and until the
run-up to the Iraq war, and what has followed from it both here
and abroad, I too would have dismissed with ridicule the
notion of a rising fascistic movement within the american right
wing.

Now, I am starting to get really worried.

It is not just that the behavior of the ruling clique fits
several definitions of fascism (other than Paxton,
see Eco's excellent exay "Eternal Fascism: Fourteen Ways
of Looking at a Blackshirt" online at http://snipurl.com/3vfl
Eco, by the way, noted at the time that a possible route
for a fascist power grab in America could be religious
fundamentalism).

It's not just that the ideological guides of the clique
make no bones about their despise for the real (as opposed
to purely cerimonial) democratic process - starting from
their mentor Leo Strauss all the way to Daniel Pipes and his
eulogies of Machiavelli.

It's not just that the drumbeat of their talk-radio, print,
and tv propaganda is unflinching and the matter-of-fact
in-your-face lying of high officials unceasing (just
listen to Rice or Cheney for a new definition of parallel
universe).

It's that the whole of it starting to look way
too familiar to one who, like me, grew up listening
to a granpa who saw "it" happening in the '20s, and
to a father and uncle who ended up fighting "it" in
'44 and '45 similarities.

Peace
glopk

Steve

Don't be silly. The Democratic Party is clearly fascist.
1: Marked by an obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victimhood: This is the textbook definition of modern day liberalism-the Democratic Party is nothing but a diverse group of victims, every whining to be free. Obsession with the decline since the good olde days of Clinton, decline in respect for MSM, obsession with the restoration of the old system.
2: And by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity: MoveOn.org, baby!
3: In which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites: MoveOne.org and Howard Dean in uneasy but effective collaboration with Kennedy, Kerry, Carter, et al. Admittedly, this is a mass-based party of committed anti-nationalists (who gain their strength and passion through hatred of their own country rather than love for it), but in principle its the same.
4: Abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence: Democrats don't win in the polls any more. Instead, they impose with the (non-democratic) judiciary. The most credible claims of voter fraud in 2004 were: the Governor's race in Washington (fraud committed by the Democratic candidate), Philadelphia (fraud committed in favor of the Democratic Presidential candidate), and East Saint Louis (fraud committed by.. oh, you get the idea). And Republicans don't throw pies-Democrats do. And Republicans don't riot at World Trade Organization meetings; Democrats do. And Republicans didn't take over campuses in the 60's to burn them; Democrats do. And Republicans don't shout down their opponents on campuses: Democrats do.
5:And without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion: MoveOn.org, baby!

Here's what really happened, folks. The day the Democratic Party became the party that disdains the working class ("Jesusland") rather than represents it, is the day it lost power. As long is you disdain the working class, you will lose (for the simple reason that there are so many of them). I can see that you haven't stopped disdaining them, so I look forward to many more years of political dominance (to quote Nelson on the Simpsons: ha ha!).

Steve

chris

Good point Steve, glad to see the many "working class" are on your plantation and know which lever to pull.

Keep up the good work.

Carleton Wu

(watches as Steve reveals himself as yet another Republican idiot who bizarrely confuses a 2 percentage point victory with "eternal dominance").

The Fool

Probably more accurate to say proto-fascist. Also, you forgot the prime example for #4: the stolen election of 2000.

PersonFromPorlock

Classical fascism's emphasis on 'will' as a critical factor in achieving success puts the reliably spineless Republicans out of the running right off the bat.

The real threat to freedom in America has always been Puritanism; the notion that one function of government is to force people to lead virtuous lives attracts those on both the right (school prayer, anti-gay rights) and left (gun control, speech codes). Worrying about fascism, especially when the word has virtually no denotative meaning any more, is an exercise in futility.

coturnix

Fascism today will not bear swastikas. It will come wrapped in the American Flag.

My family lost 42 members in the Holocaust. I came to the USA in 1991. Sensitized to this by my upbringing, I noticed the first worrisome symptoms of proto-fascism in 2000. LGF-style comments are a further proof. Yes, go read Orcinus blog, throughout the Archives.

Rick aka therepguy

You bet it is...

Even as we post. we're see the republican party evolve right in from of our eyes. To become the nation's first true American Fascist Party,

And to think I lost my dad to fascism in WWII...

I'm include, the follow, in case you haven't seen the this...

How many would check off as beening characteristics Bushism?

Fascism 1.01
Key Characteristics of a Fascist Government

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

4. Supremacy of the Military

5. Rampant Sexism ...including the suppression of divorce, abortion rights, and homosexuality in favor of a “traditional” family structure,
with the state positioned as the ultimate guardian of the family institution)

6. Controlled Mass Media Using Propaganda and Cen-
sorship

7. Obsession with National Security Using Fear as a Mo-
tivational Tool

8. Intertwining of Religion and Government

9. Corporatism

10. Suppression of Labor Power

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

14. Fraudulent Elections

Rick aka therepguy

It should be noted that German Fascism rolled into power via the ballot box in the 3O's... not unlike the way that Bushism came to power!

A honest book is far better for information than a truck load of Telvision shows... when it comes to understanding history.

Rick aka therepguy

The dictionary defines fascism as...noun
an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.

• (In general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

The term Fascism was first used for the totalitarian right-wing nationalist regime of Mussolini in Italy (1922–43), and the regimes of the Nazis in Germany and Franco in Spain were also fascist.

Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach.

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